Ok, ne bom spuscal v temo, ampak ali to pomeni, da, dokler se ne ugotovi drugace, v bistvu vsi sami sebe navidez ogrozamo z namenom pridobitve neke koristi?? Huh, kako dalec v zgodovino bomo ugotavljali te motive?

Navidezno ogrožanje samega sebe je prastara finta, glede motiva pa si že sam odgovoril: Neka korist.

Aja, sem mislil, da bos zacel, da je bil holokavst finta, pa med- in povojni poboji, pa recimo herezija itd.

[dalex]
Aja, sem mislil, da bos zacel, da je bil holokavst finta,

Verjetno je bil, ja, vsaj delno. Za to, da je zanikanje sodno prepovedano, pač mora biti nek razlog. Vendar pa za resnico tu nisem zainteresiran, zato te teme ne mislim načenjati. Če še naprej velja internacija=množični poboj, ne bo čisto nič narobe.

[dalex]
pa med- in povojni poboji,

Spravni prepir ni prepir o preteklosti, ampak o prihodnosti. Dejansko se prepiramo o tem, čigave vrednote bodo v prihodnje obveljale in posledično o tem, kdo bo v prihodnosti na oblasti. In o tem sprave ne more biti.

[dalex]
pa recimo herezija itd.

Huh??

Verjetno je bil, ja, vsaj delno. Za to, da je zanikanje sodno prepovedano, pač mora biti nek razlog.

Počakaj, a torej namiguješ, da Židi niso bili pobiti, ker da so neki izkoriščevalski in pohlepni bankirji, trgovci, v glavnem uničevalci človeškega dobrega roda, v resnici pa so Židi sami organizirali z namenom pridobitve koristi? Hočeš tudi reči, da gre za laž, v bistvu jih pa imajo vsi radi, še posebej (npr. nacionalni) socialisti in komunisti?

Dejansko se prepiramo o tem, čigave vrednote bodo v prihodnje obveljale in posledično o tem, kdo bo v prihodnosti na oblasti

A res misliš, da bo žlahtni komunizem prevladal??

> pa recimo herezija itd.
Huh??

Ali so nekristjani samo fintirano bili pokristanjevani, v bistvu sploh ni bilo nobenih pobojev v imenu cerkve ali kako? Nekristjani so samo hoteli korist zase na ta račun?

PETICIJA I

REŠIMO INTERNET

Vsem članom ameriškega kongresa:
Kot zaskrbljeni državljani, vas prosimo, da se uvrstite med zagovornike svobode svetovnega spleta in da glasujete proti dvem zakonom, ki sta predmet odločanja o internetu. Svetovni splet je instrument izmenjavanja idej in izgrajevanja skupnega dela pri konstuiranju sveta, kakšnega bi imeli radi vsi. Prosimo vas da odločate odgovorno v okviru celotnega sveta in da naredite vse kar morate, za to, da obranite temelje demokracije.

* do sedaj je podpisalo peticijo 877.416 državljanov
* do 19.12.2011 je podpisalo peticijo 1.052.623 državljanov
* do 20.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 2.565.970 državljanov
* do 21.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 2.814.462 državljanov
* do 22.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.038.248 državljanov
* do 27.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.321.212 državljanov
* do 28.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.339.096 državljanov
* do 29.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.358.588 državljanov
* do 30.01.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.368.376 državljanov
* do 03.02.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.395.150 državljanov
* do 07.02.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.410.198 državljanov
* do 09.02.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.415.666 državljanov
* do 15.02.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.428.616 državljanov
* do 16.02.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.429.749 državljanov
* do 22.02.2012 je podpisalo peticijo 3.436.018 državljanov
www.avaaz.org/it/sav...?slideshow

Na osnovi takega sprejetega takona, bi lahko prišlo do cenzuriranja interneta in bi se na t.i. črni listi lahko znašli tudi You Tube, WikiLeaks in celo skupine kot je Avaaz!

PETICIJA II

NO ACTA

EVROPSKEMU PARLAMENTU

Vsem članom Evropskega parlamenta:
Kot zaskrbljeni državljani, vas prosimo, da se postavite na stran svobode interneta in ne ratificirate trgovinskega sporazuma za boj proti ponarejanju - ACTA, ki bi ga lahko uničil za zmeraj. Internet je odločujoči instrument za izmenjavo idej in promocijo demokracije. Prosimo Vas, da se obnašate svetovljansko in da zavarujete naše pravice.

* do sedaj podpisalo peticijo 826.311 državljanov
* do 29.01.2012 podpisalo peticijo 1.003.986 državljanov
* do 30.01.2012 podpisalo peticijo 1.238.558 državljanov
* do 03.02.2012 podpisalo peticijo 1.606.879 državljanov
* do 07.02.2012 podpisalo peticijo 1.899.616 državljanov
* do 09.02.2012 podpisalo peticijo 2.058.532 državljanov
* do 15.02.2012 podpisalo peticijo 2.344.982 državljanov
* do 16.02.2012 podpisalo peticijo 2.354.172 državljanov
* do 22.02.2012 podpisalo peticijo 2.403.023 državljanov
secure.avaaz.org/it/...07&v=12250

NO ACTA!

Sporazum ACTA je trenutno v fazi sprejemanja v večih državah članicah Evropske unije. V večini teh držav pa se pomen sporazuma zelo podcenjuje.
V času sprejemanja sporazuma v posameznih članicah unije in pred glavno ratifikacijo sporazuma na nivoju Evropske unije, avtorji te knjižice evropske poslance in ostale odločevalce pozivamo k resnemu premisleku o učinkih tega sporazuma. Ob pomanjkanju dodatnih zadovoljivih zagotovih in pojasnih s strani Evropske komisije in Evropskega sodišča pa od Evropskega parmenta zahtevamo, naj glasuje PROTI sprejemanju sporazuma ACTA.
Celotna izjava za javnost
www.e-demokracija.si...a-javnost/
www.e-demokracija.si...zumu-acta/
www.e-demokracija.si...poslancev/

KVIZ
www.e-demokracija.si...acta-kviz/

BOBU BOB
Dr. Milica Antić Gaber, sociologinja: "Pravica do besede je posebej izpostavljena zato, da bi lahko tlačeni, ponižani, tisti z malo moči ali pa celo brez moči, dvignili glas in bili slišani. Ne pa za sejanje sovraštva."
Sobota, 17. december 2011
www.vecer.si

SAJ NI RES, PA JE!

Problem spletnega filtriranja
Indijski organi pregona zahtevajo od Googla in Facebooka, da na spletu filtrirata vsako vsebino, ki je˝ obscena in žaljiva˝. Odvetnik Facebooka je na to odvrnil:˝ V Angliji obstaja kraj Penistone. Če bi blokirali vsako vsebino, ki bi vklučevala besedo penis, bi pomenilo, da nihče iz tega kraja ne bi mogel biti na spletu.˝
Če bi filter reagiral tudi na izgovorjavo, na spletu ne bi bilo mogoče ugotoviti, kdo je najboljši slovenski biatlonec.
N.N.
www.dnevnik.si.

* vprašanje za 1mio$ pa je, koliko naših poslancev in vladnih predstavnikov, bi pravilno ali sploh rešilo, zgoraj objavljeni KVIZ - Koliko veste o sporazumu ACTA?
www.e-demokracija.si...acta-kviz/

[oQI23IDCN0948R]
> [FIN-326258]
> podpirajte vsak boj proti goljufom.
>
> Osnovni cilj goljufov je spreti narod.
>
> Ni več levih in desnih, pa oranžnih pa, črnci in belci, pa homoseksualci in "normalni".....
>
> smo samo delovni in ustvarjalni proti goljufom.
> Goljufi so naredili tak sistem v katerem stežka uspeš, če delaš po predpisih,
> oni jih pa sploh ne upoštevajo.
>
> A ste njihov plačan bloger? Menim da ne.

Goljufi, ki so za nas najbolj nevarni domujejo v Murglah, Lazgosah in na magistratu. Goljufom se pravi partijska nomenklatura, ki je drzavo spremenila v servis udbomafijske elite ter v jeco ustvarjalnih in delavnih. Tam so goljufi, ki so za Slovence nevarni in jih med seboj spirajo ze 70 let. Drugi goljufi so napram njim skorajda fantomske prikazni.

se strinjam v celoti, počakajmo še malo da še drugi goljufi snamejo maske.

Bojim se, da bodo v boju proti komunajzerjem (kateri sedaj hlinijo poštenost in "medijsko mobilizirajo" deloven narod), nezavedno poteptali delovne ljudi.
Slutim predvsem zaradi ACT-e.

Preveč so navezani na RKC, le ta pa nikoli ni dejansko poskrbela za ljudi, poglejte zgodovino in tudi sedaj ni drugače. Čeprav trenutno vsaj javno pravilno postopajo - NOVA Slovenija. Družinski zakonik - brez komentarja.

Primer: pri nas se je načrtoval poseg v cerkvi. Prve njihove uradne, grobe ocene investicije so bile 80.000€, kasneje se je naročilo za 100.000€. Po izvedbi projekta je cena katero morajo plačati verniki uradno nekje 200.000€, člani gospodarskega sveta pa neuradno pravijo, da med 250 in 300.000€. Moja ocena (nisem povsem laik in si upam povedat) je do 100.000€ s tem, da je to Evropski posel za podjetnika - dober zaslužek.

Sicer je pa večina religij podobnih.

Ena pozitivna stvar komunajzerjev je ta da so RKC postavili tja kjer ji je mesto - ločili od države.

[dalex]
> Verjetno je bil, ja, vsaj delno. Za to, da je zanikanje sodno prepovedano, pač mora biti nek razlog.

Počakaj, a torej namiguješ, da Židi niso bili pobiti, ker da so neki izkoriščevalski in pohlepni bankirji, trgovci, v glavnem uničevalci človeškega dobrega roda, v resnici pa so Židi sami organizirali z namenom pridobitve koristi? Hočeš tudi reči, da gre za laž, v bistvu jih pa imajo vsi radi, še posebej (npr. nacionalni) socialisti in komunisti?

S tem v zvezi ne namigujem na nič. Gornje špekulacije so samo tvoje.

> Dejansko se prepiramo o tem, čigave vrednote bodo v prihodnje obveljale in posledično o tem, kdo bo v prihodnosti na oblasti

A res misliš, da bo žlahtni komunizem prevladal??

Ne gre za komunizem, ampak za napadalno vojno, okupacijo in odpor proti okupatorju. Komunizem je samo umetna megla, ki nima s temi stvarmi popolnoma nobene veze. Glede na to, v kakšnem zavezništvu smo, naj bi bila v bodoče naša vrednota krščansko pravična osvajalna vojna s plemenitimi cilji, odpor proti okupatorju pa zločin.

[FIN-326258]
Ena pozitivna stvar komunajzerjev je ta da so RKC postavili tja kjer ji je mesto - ločili od države.

Če zagovarjaš ločitev RKC od države si komunajzar tudi ti.

Predalec smo prisli, ne bom dodatne scene delal, le malo bolj, khm, sirokega duha bodi.

[dalex]
Predalec smo prisli, ne bom dodatne scene delal, le malo bolj, khm, sirokega duha bodi.

Dovolj "širokega" duha, da bi enačil Žide z bančniki in trgovci (sem ravno še ujel) ne bom nikoli. Židje so predvsem tile:

www.youtube.com/watc...DRN6v5uQtI

www.guardian.co.uk/w...protesters

Cerkev so verniki in ti verniki plačujejo davke in dokler plačujejo tej državi davke imamajo se pravico vmešavat.Možno je da verniki začnejo davke plačevat cerkvi potem se cerkev ne bo imela pravice vmešavat v državo.

[bellachika]
Cerkev so verniki in ti verniki plačujejo davke in dokler plačujejo tej državi davke imamajo se pravico vmešavat.Možno je da verniki začnejo davke plačevat cerkvi potem se cerkev ne bo imela pravice vmešavat v državo.

Traparija.

Cerkev se bo vmešavala ne glede na to ali ima pravico ali ne. Ne želi se vmešavati in ona sama stalno pridiga da se ne bi smela vmešavati in da ni prav da se vmešava, a se kljub temu vmešava. Taka je pač v njena narava. Smo pač grešniki, jebiga, duh je močan, a meso je šibko.

To so (nekateri) izseki, ugotovi, za katero ideologijo gre...

... združuje biološki rasizem in antisemitizem, politična strategija je osredotočena proti korporacijam, proti meščanstvu, uporablja proti-kapitalistično retoriko, ki jo kasneje opusti, da pridobi podporo industrialcev; sfokusira se na antisemitizem...

...obtožuje zarote kontrole časopisov, bank in ostalih institucij, židovsko edino osredotočanje na kopičenje bogastva...

Opazis kaksne vzporednice z, recimo, 80 let nazaj?

[bellachika]
Cerkev so verniki in ti verniki plačujejo davke in dokler plačujejo tej državi davke imamajo se pravico vmešavat.Možno je da verniki začnejo davke plačevat cerkvi potem se cerkev ne bo imela pravice vmešavat v državo.

ok, sem za to da se neha kakorkoli financirat verske skupnosti..ampak potem je pošteno plačat odškodnine za vse pizdarije ki jih je rkc utrpela pod komunisti..od sežiga škofa,pobijanja duhovnikov in članov rkc samo zato ker so bili kar so bili,za uporabo zaseženih stavb...gremo v to?malkdo ve da se je cerkev odrekla odškodninam v zameno za tistih par milijonov na let..

[oQI23IDCN0948R]
> [Moneta]
> Marš, banda komunajzarska!!!

*****

Tocno to sem si rekel tudi sam, ko sem prebral naslov. Kako bebav odnos do sveta moras imeti, da v od komunisticne mafije izropani in zategadelj v vseh ozirih bivanja bankrotirani drzavi, lajas na cerkev? Bojzevsko bebav pac. Upam, da bo policija surovo razgnala te delomrzne izgrednike, okuzene z najvecjim kretenizmom tega stoletja. Ne da upam, to zahtevam kot davkoplacevalec te mafijske komunisticne republike!

hmmm ali imate vsi spomin zlate ribice?

[dalex]
To so (nekateri) izseki, ugotovi, za katero ideologijo gre...

... združuje biološki rasizem in antisemitizem, politična strategija je osredotočena proti korporacijam, proti meščanstvu, uporablja proti-kapitalistično retoriko, ki jo kasneje opusti, da pridobi podporo industrialcev; sfokusira se na antisemitizem...

...obtožuje zarote kontrole časopisov, bank in ostalih institucij, židovsko edino osredotočanje na kopičenje bogastva...

Opazis kaksne vzporednice z, recimo, 80 let nazaj?

Prvo je enciklopedični opis nacizma, drugo pa neofašistični opis komunizma. Vzporednic torej ni.

Nacizem je bil Nemcem nasilno vsiljen od zunaj, torej je itak brez veze, da ga čimerkoli primerjaš.

[lenninmccarthy]
> [bellachika]
> Cerkev so verniki in ti verniki plačujejo davke in dokler plačujejo tej državi davke imamajo se pravico vmešavat.Možno je da verniki začnejo davke plačevat cerkvi potem se cerkev ne bo imela pravice vmešavat v državo.

ok, sem za to da se neha kakorkoli financirat verske skupnosti..ampak potem je pošteno plačat odškodnine za vse pizdarije ki jih je rkc utrpela pod komunisti..od sežiga škofa,pobijanja duhovnikov in članov rkc samo zato ker so bili kar so bili,za uporabo zaseženih stavb...gremo v to?malkdo ve da se je cerkev odrekla odškodninam v zameno za tistih par milijonov na let..

no lepo, 800mio eur v okviru Zvon 1 bi mogl zadoščat? pa širna prostranstva gozdov po Pokljuki vendar tudi?

[oQI23IDCN0948R]
> [sstanislav]
> > [oQI23IDCN0948R]
> > vsegliharstvo je stanje duha, ki je najblizje amorali.
>
> Najbližje amorali je pa kaj?
> Nespoštovanje med ljudmi dogovorjenih človekovih pravic, ali kaj drugega?

Morala je ponotranjen set druzbenih vrednot, ki nastajajo skozi tisocletja in tako v veliki meri presegajo spreminjajoce se politicne ureditve. Torej je amorala odsotnost tega seta. Lahko ti povem se drugace: amoralnost je prvi pogoj za razvoj psihopatskega znacaja.

prav imaš, nisem še nikjer videl bolj amoralnih ljudi, kot so bankirji in politiki....pardon v cerkvenih krogih je preveč še otroko-porivačev :)
en.wikipedia.org/wik...buse_cases

The attitude of fascism toward religion has run the gamut from tolerance to almost complete rejection,[309] but is typically anticlerical.[310] Stanley Payne notes that fundamental to fascism was the foundation of a purely materialistic "civic religion" that would "displace preceding structures of belief and relegate supernatural religion to a secondary role, or to none at all", and that "though there were specific examples of religious or would-be 'Christian fascists,' fascism presupposed a post-Christian, post-religious, secular, and immanent frame of reference."[311]

According to Payne, fascism's own myth of secular transcendence only gains hold where traditional belief is weakened or absent, since fascism seeks to create new non-rationalist myth structures for those who no longer hold a traditional view.[312] The rise of modern secularism in Europe and Latin America, and the incursion and large-scale adoption of western secular culture in the mid-east, leave a void where this modern secular ideology, sometimes under a religious veneer, can take hold.[312]

Many fascists were anti-clerical in both private and public life.[313] Although both Hitler and Mussolini were anti-clerical, they both understood that it would be rash to begin their Kirchenkampfs prematurely; though possibly inevitable in the future, such clashes were put off while they dealt with other enemies.[314] Many Italian Fascists were disgusted by Mussolini's decision to abandon Fascism's anti-clericalism in favour of reconciliation with the Catholic Church.[315] Many historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some say existed even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war.[316][317][318][319][320][321][322][323][324]

The leader of the Hitler Youth stated, "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position.[316] In Mexico, the Red Shirts were vehemently atheist, renounced religion, killed priests, and on one occasion gunned down Catholics as they left Mass.[325][326][327][328][329]

According to a biographer of Mussolini, "Initially, fascism was fiercely anti-Catholic" — the Church being a competitor for dominion over the people's hearts.[330] Mussolini published anti-Catholic writings and planned for the confiscation of Church property, but eventually moved to accommodation.[309] Mussolini endorsed the Catholic Church for political legitimacy; during the Lateran Treaty talks, Fascist Party officials engaged in bitter arguments with Vatican officials and pressured them to accept terms that the regime deemed acceptable.[331] Protestantism in Italy was not as significant as Catholicism, and the Protestant minority was persecuted.[332] Mussolini's sub-secretary of Interior, Bufferini-Guidi, issued a memo closing all houses of worship of the Italian Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses and imprisoned their leaders.[333] In some instances, people were killed because of their faith.[334]

The Ustaše in Croatia had strong Catholic overtones, with some clerics in positions of power.[335] The fascist movement in Romania, known as the Iron Guard or the Legion of Archangel Michael, preceded its meetings with a church service. The Romanian fascist movement promoted a cult of "suffering, sacrifice and martyrdom."[336][337]

In Latin America, the most notable fascist movement was Plínio Salgado's Brazilian Integralism. Built on a network of lay religious associations, its vision was of an integral state that "comes from Christ, is inspired in Christ, acts for Christ, and goes toward Christ."[338][339][340] Salgado criticised the "dangerous pagan tendencies of Hitlerism".[341]

Hitler and the Nazi regime attempted to found their own version of Christianity called Positive Christianity, which made major changes in its interpretation of the Bible, saying that Jesus Christ was the son of God, but was not a Jew. By 1940, however, it was public knowledge that Hitler had abandoned even the syncretist idea of a positive Christianity.[342]

The Catholic Church was suppressed by Nazis in Poland. In addition to the deaths of some 3 million Polish Jews, 2 million Polish Catholics were killed.[343] Between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 polish clergy (18%) were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[343] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland, churches were systematically closed, and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government.

The Germans also closed seminaries and convents, persecuting monks and nuns throughout Poland. Eighty percent of the Catholic clergy and five of the bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939; in Chełmno, 48%.[343] Of those murdered by the Nazi regime, 108 are regarded as blessed martyrs.[343] Among them, Maximilian Kolbe was canonized as a saint. Not only in Poland were Christians persecuted by the Nazis. In the Dachau concentration camp alone, 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed.[343]

One theory is that religion and fascism could never have a lasting connection because both are a "holistic weltanschauung" claiming the whole of the person.[309] Along these lines, Yale political scientist, Juan Linz and others have noted that secularization had created a void which could be filled by a total ideology, making totalitarianism possible,[344][345] and Roger Griffin has characterized fascism as a type of anti-religious political religion.[346] Such political religions vie with conventional, actual religions, and try to replace or eradicate them


anonimci= fašisti!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

zanimiv kok kratk je tekst v slovenščini..hehe..da se neb slučajno kdo prepoznal..

[oQI23IDCN0948R]
> [bendzzi]
> Podpiram Anonymus in sorodna gibanja, npr. AVAZ. Upirajo se poskusom multinacionalk, da nam zaračunajo še pravico do medsebojne komunikacije. Da uresničijo Orwellov 1984 in sorodne antiutopije.
>
> Še več, Anonymus dokazujejo, da je svet zrel za drugačno, nekrvavo revolucijo. Kajti danes se upor lahko izvede preko elektronskega omrežja. Blokira dejavnike moči in jih prisili v pravičnejšo razdelitev dobrin, v trajnostno rabo okolja. Verjamem, da bodo milijoni mladih tudi izvedli tak upor.
>
> Tudi cerkvi je treba dati vedeti, da v sodobni družbi nima pravice pozivati k linču - kar poziv na referendumsko zavrnitev družinskega zakonika je. In vse, ki ste mnenja, da je "edina prava družina" ata + mama + froci pod isto streho in za vsako ceno, vprašam: koliko vas je, ki ste odrasli v ločenih družinah? Koliko vas je že ločenih? Se zavedate, da je bila samohranilka še pred 30, 40 leti ožigosana? In otrok zmerjan za pankrta? Brez liberalne zakonodaje tako v razvitem svetu kot v tedanji Jugoslaviji bi bilo danes precej drugače. In če mislite, da bolje, vas vprašam: kaj menite, koliko otrok iz (navidezno) "pravih" družin bi v anonimni anketi izjavilo, da imajo družino? Verjemite, malo! Družina sta tudi razvezana starša s svojimi otroci, če sta zreli osebi, ki sta sprejeli neskladje in s tem potrebo po razvezi zakona, a odgovorno sprejemata in sodelujeta pri staršestvu. V takih družinah otroci čutijo, da imajo družino. Verjamem, da je lahko tako tudi v istospolnih družinah. Če jih iz lastne zagrenjenosti in nevoščljivosti ne ožigosamo.
>
> S kakšno pravico bodo na referendumu ljudje - bodisi "srečno" živeči v odtujenih družinah bodisi ločeni - odločali o pravici drugih, da si ustvarjajo družine v skladu s svojimi prepričanji in možnostmi? Ni kaj, ne upanje, licemerje umre zadnje!
>
> Eno od bistvenih meril uspešnosti sodobne družbe bi moral postati odstotek otrok, ki čutijo, da imajo družino! (Ob tem se spomnim prizora z dopusta, za sosednjo mizo: oče na telefonu, mati z odsotnim pogledom, odraščajoča hčerka pod težo mučne medsebojne odtujenosti. Krasni novi svet!)

Pravicnejso razdelitev dobrin? Kam meris, zepar? Trajnostno rabo okolja? Sploh se ves, kam meris? Cerkev, da poziva k lincu? Kje, kdaj?

Bedak, naj te raje skrbi odostnost pravne drzave in umor podjetnistva.

saj ne da bi kdo od vladajočih "elit" že kdaj na očeh javnosti snedel svojo besedo :)

[lenninmccarthy]
The attitude of fascism toward religion has run the gamut from tolerance to almost complete rejection,[309] but is typically anticlerical.[310] Stanley Payne notes that fundamental to fascism was the foundation of a purely materialistic "civic religion" that would "displace preceding structures of belief and relegate supernatural religion to a secondary role, or to none at all", and that "though there were specific examples of religious or would-be 'Christian fascists,' fascism presupposed a post-Christian, post-religious, secular, and immanent frame of reference."[311]

According to Payne, fascism's own myth of secular transcendence only gains hold where traditional belief is weakened or absent, since fascism seeks to create new non-rationalist myth structures for those who no longer hold a traditional view.[312] The rise of modern secularism in Europe and Latin America, and the incursion and large-scale adoption of western secular culture in the mid-east, leave a void where this modern secular ideology, sometimes under a religious veneer, can take hold.[312]

Many fascists were anti-clerical in both private and public life.[313] Although both Hitler and Mussolini were anti-clerical, they both understood that it would be rash to begin their Kirchenkampfs prematurely; though possibly inevitable in the future, such clashes were put off while they dealt with other enemies.[314] Many Italian Fascists were disgusted by Mussolini's decision to abandon Fascism's anti-clericalism in favour of reconciliation with the Catholic Church.[315] Many historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some say existed even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war.[316][317][318][319][320][321][322][323][324]

The leader of the Hitler Youth stated, "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position.[316] In Mexico, the Red Shirts were vehemently atheist, renounced religion, killed priests, and on one occasion gunned down Catholics as they left Mass.[325][326][327][328][329]

According to a biographer of Mussolini, "Initially, fascism was fiercely anti-Catholic" — the Church being a competitor for dominion over the people's hearts.[330] Mussolini published anti-Catholic writings and planned for the confiscation of Church property, but eventually moved to accommodation.[309] Mussolini endorsed the Catholic Church for political legitimacy; during the Lateran Treaty talks, Fascist Party officials engaged in bitter arguments with Vatican officials and pressured them to accept terms that the regime deemed acceptable.[331] Protestantism in Italy was not as significant as Catholicism, and the Protestant minority was persecuted.[332] Mussolini's sub-secretary of Interior, Bufferini-Guidi, issued a memo closing all houses of worship of the Italian Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses and imprisoned their leaders.[333] In some instances, people were killed because of their faith.[334]

The Ustaše in Croatia had strong Catholic overtones, with some clerics in positions of power.[335] The fascist movement in Romania, known as the Iron Guard or the Legion of Archangel Michael, preceded its meetings with a church service. The Romanian fascist movement promoted a cult of "suffering, sacrifice and martyrdom."[336][337]

In Latin America, the most notable fascist movement was Plínio Salgado's Brazilian Integralism. Built on a network of lay religious associations, its vision was of an integral state that "comes from Christ, is inspired in Christ, acts for Christ, and goes toward Christ."[338][339][340] Salgado criticised the "dangerous pagan tendencies of Hitlerism".[341]

Hitler and the Nazi regime attempted to found their own version of Christianity called Positive Christianity, which made major changes in its interpretation of the Bible, saying that Jesus Christ was the son of God, but was not a Jew. By 1940, however, it was public knowledge that Hitler had abandoned even the syncretist idea of a positive Christianity.[342]

The Catholic Church was suppressed by Nazis in Poland. In addition to the deaths of some 3 million Polish Jews, 2 million Polish Catholics were killed.[343] Between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 polish clergy (18%) were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[343] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland, churches were systematically closed, and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government.

The Germans also closed seminaries and convents, persecuting monks and nuns throughout Poland. Eighty percent of the Catholic clergy and five of the bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939; in Chełmno, 48%.[343] Of those murdered by the Nazi regime, 108 are regarded as blessed martyrs.[343] Among them, Maximilian Kolbe was canonized as a saint. Not only in Poland were Christians persecuted by the Nazis. In the Dachau concentration camp alone, 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed.[343]

One theory is that religion and fascism could never have a lasting connection because both are a "holistic weltanschauung" claiming the whole of the person.[309] Along these lines, Yale political scientist, Juan Linz and others have noted that secularization had created a void which could be filled by a total ideology, making totalitarianism possible,[344][345] and Roger Griffin has characterized fascism as a type of anti-religious political religion.[346] Such political religions vie with conventional, actual religions, and try to replace or eradicate them


anonimci= fašisti!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

zanimiv kok kratk je tekst v slovenščini..hehe..da se neb slučajno kdo prepoznal..

a ti o ameriki to govoriš al kaj?

Ron Paul says U.S. is turning into a 'fascist system' dominated by government and businesses

By Associated Press

Last updated at 7:02 AM on 19th February 2012

www.dailymail.co.uk/...state.html

[lenninmccarthy]
anonimci= fašisti!

Hja... če so tile proticerkveni anonimci res kaki zamaskirani jezuiti, potem bo to kar držalo ]:->

res cheap anti-propaganda in diskreditacijska kampanija miroljubnega gibanja :) zdaj se šele vidi, kako je slovenija rdeča :) povprečno inteligenten človek pa potrebuje natanko 4min in dostop do googla, da negira bolj ali manj vsako trobezljanje tistih, ki imajo slabo vest

[mataj]
> [lenninmccarthy]
> anonimci= fašisti!

Hja... če so tile proticerkveni anonimci res kaki zamaskirani jezuiti, potem bo to kar držalo ]:->

saj so vendar že eno leto nazaj deklarirali na internetu kdo so anonymous...še celo s slovenskimi podnapisi :D

www.youtube.com/watc...Tnbuq9VSq0

Prvo je enciklopedični opis nacizma, drugo pa neofašistični opis komunizma.

No, prvo je morda res, drugo pa ni res, vsaj po tej enciklopediji ne, kaksni lokalni so ideoloski/materialni odkloni zaradi polpretekle zgodovine so bolj zanimivost v poimenovanju in presenetljive lojalnosti domnevno bolj naprednih medijev in posledicno volivcev. To je prehodna rec.

Nacizem je bil Nemcem nasilno vsiljen od zunaj, torej je itak brez veze, da ga čimerkoli primerjaš.

Kdo bi potem moral biti kaznovan po svetovnih vojnah? Navedi nekaj imen, da preverimo njihovo etnično poreklo ;)

[lenninmccarthy]
The attitude of fascism toward religion has run the gamut from tolerance to almost complete rejection,[309] but is typically anticlerical.[310] Stanley Payne notes that fundamental to fascism was the foundation of a purely materialistic "civic religion" that would "displace preceding structures of belief and relegate supernatural religion to a secondary role, or to none at all", and that "though there were specific examples of religious or would-be 'Christian fascists,' fascism presupposed a post-Christian, post-religious, secular, and immanent frame of reference."[311]

According to Payne, fascism's own myth of secular transcendence only gains hold where traditional belief is weakened or absent, since fascism seeks to create new non-rationalist myth structures for those who no longer hold a traditional view.[312] The rise of modern secularism in Europe and Latin America, and the incursion and large-scale adoption of western secular culture in the mid-east, leave a void where this modern secular ideology, sometimes under a religious veneer, can take hold.[312]

Many fascists were anti-clerical in both private and public life.[313] Although both Hitler and Mussolini were anti-clerical, they both understood that it would be rash to begin their Kirchenkampfs prematurely; though possibly inevitable in the future, such clashes were put off while they dealt with other enemies.[314] Many Italian Fascists were disgusted by Mussolini's decision to abandon Fascism's anti-clericalism in favour of reconciliation with the Catholic Church.[315] Many historians maintain that the Nazis had a general covert plan, which some say existed even before the Nazis' rise to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich which was to be accomplished through control and subversion of the churches and to be completed after the war.[316][317][318][319][320][321][322][323][324]

The leader of the Hitler Youth stated, "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position.[316] In Mexico, the Red Shirts were vehemently atheist, renounced religion, killed priests, and on one occasion gunned down Catholics as they left Mass.[325][326][327][328][329]

According to a biographer of Mussolini, "Initially, fascism was fiercely anti-Catholic" — the Church being a competitor for dominion over the people's hearts.[330] Mussolini published anti-Catholic writings and planned for the confiscation of Church property, but eventually moved to accommodation.[309] Mussolini endorsed the Catholic Church for political legitimacy; during the Lateran Treaty talks, Fascist Party officials engaged in bitter arguments with Vatican officials and pressured them to accept terms that the regime deemed acceptable.[331] Protestantism in Italy was not as significant as Catholicism, and the Protestant minority was persecuted.[332] Mussolini's sub-secretary of Interior, Bufferini-Guidi, issued a memo closing all houses of worship of the Italian Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses and imprisoned their leaders.[333] In some instances, people were killed because of their faith.[334]

The Ustaše in Croatia had strong Catholic overtones, with some clerics in positions of power.[335] The fascist movement in Romania, known as the Iron Guard or the Legion of Archangel Michael, preceded its meetings with a church service. The Romanian fascist movement promoted a cult of "suffering, sacrifice and martyrdom."[336][337]

In Latin America, the most notable fascist movement was Plínio Salgado's Brazilian Integralism. Built on a network of lay religious associations, its vision was of an integral state that "comes from Christ, is inspired in Christ, acts for Christ, and goes toward Christ."[338][339][340] Salgado criticised the "dangerous pagan tendencies of Hitlerism".[341]

Hitler and the Nazi regime attempted to found their own version of Christianity called Positive Christianity, which made major changes in its interpretation of the Bible, saying that Jesus Christ was the son of God, but was not a Jew. By 1940, however, it was public knowledge that Hitler had abandoned even the syncretist idea of a positive Christianity.[342]

The Catholic Church was suppressed by Nazis in Poland. In addition to the deaths of some 3 million Polish Jews, 2 million Polish Catholics were killed.[343] Between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 polish clergy (18%) were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[343] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland, churches were systematically closed, and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government.

The Germans also closed seminaries and convents, persecuting monks and nuns throughout Poland. Eighty percent of the Catholic clergy and five of the bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939; in Chełmno, 48%.[343] Of those murdered by the Nazi regime, 108 are regarded as blessed martyrs.[343] Among them, Maximilian Kolbe was canonized as a saint. Not only in Poland were Christians persecuted by the Nazis. In the Dachau concentration camp alone, 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed.[343]

One theory is that religion and fascism could never have a lasting connection because both are a "holistic weltanschauung" claiming the whole of the person.[309] Along these lines, Yale political scientist, Juan Linz and others have noted that secularization had created a void which could be filled by a total ideology, making totalitarianism possible,[344][345] and Roger Griffin has characterized fascism as a type of anti-religious political religion.[346] Such political religions vie with conventional, actual religions, and try to replace or eradicate them


anonimci= fašisti!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

zanimiv kok kratk je tekst v slovenščini..hehe..da se neb slučajno kdo prepoznal..

Anonimci = fasiti = komunisti = nacisti. Kar pa se tice slovenskih wiki clankov, ki se dotikajo tematik, katere bi, ce bi bile korektno obravnavane, vrgle pravo luc na "protifasisticni boj" in tako posledicno na bivso-sedanjo-vecno revolucionarno udbomafijsko nomenklaturo, pa je to standard; zadnjic sem prav pobuljil, ko sem videl sicer mrsav, a precej korekten slovenski wiki vnos o zgodovini KPS. Kdo "preciscuje" na ta nacin obcutljive wiki clanke? Imajo na katedri za zgodovino flozarskog fakulteta univerze edota kradelja angaziran trop ideolosko neoporecnih studentov, ki pod vodstvom udbasa repeta neusmiljeno editirajo vsako deviacijo od partijske resnice?

Recimo tu bi se lahko angaziral slovenski anonymous. Ampak se ne more, ker je to v konfliktu z njegovo komunajzo-fasisticno agendo.

Dol z murgelsko podgano, dol s prevratniki, ki ne prevracajo podgane!

[dalex]
Kdo bi potem moral biti kaznovan po svetovnih vojnah? Navedi nekaj imen, da preverimo njihovo etnično poreklo ;)

* Gustav Krupp, lastnik istoimenskega podjetja

* Edwin in Helena Bechstein, klavirji

* Henri Wilhelm August Deterding, lastnik Royal Dutch Shell

* Ruska aristokracija v emigraciji (vojvodinja Viktorija Feodorovna, Kiril Vladimirovič, ipd)

* Fritz Thyssen, lastnik istoimenskega podjetja

* Henry Ford. Ja, tisti Henry Ford, veliki job creator.

* John Pierpont Morgan. Ja, tisti J.P.Morgan, bankir.

* Charles Gates Dawes, bankir in podpredsednik ZDA

* Hugo Stinnes, nemški politik in industrialist

* Emil Kirdorf, nemški tajkun na področju premogovih rudnikov

* John Foster Dulles, ameriški politik, organiziral več kot milijardo takratnih dolarjev donacij s strani ameriških bank in wall streeta

* Korporacije: IG Farben, Deutsche Bank, General Motors, Ford, General Electric, DuPont, Alcoa, Dow Chemical, Blendix, Siemens, Bosch


Od naštetih je, kolikor meni znano, prišel pred Nürnberško sodišče edino Gustav Krupp. Obsojen je bil na cca 10 let. Nerodno. Kmalu po tem je sodišču zmanjkalo denarja in je moralo prenehati z delom. Krupp je bil brez pravne podlage izpuščen po letu ali dveh.

amerika se mi zdi v mnogih pogledih zelo fašistična..

[lenninmccarthy]
amerika se mi zdi v mnogih pogledih zelo fašistična..

če eden od ljudi, ki tekmuje za presidential elections, to večkrat poudari v svojih govorih....potem mu gre dejansko za verjeti...in to trdi še celo človek, ki bi rad ukinil vse ameriške vojaške baze po svetu in vso ameriško vojsko pripeljal nazaj domov....Ron Paul je edino upanje za američane....pa za ostalih 3/4 sveta tudi.....

torej si zaključil z bedarijami tipa anonimci=fašisti?

hahahaha :D poglej kako postaja strah bumerang, ki se vrača k tistemu ki ga meče :)